Occult influences - where'd you start?

[Caylus Ark]

I have another comment on the schizophrenia thing. I randomly came across this post, it's really interesting.

This is an interesting question. Having worked with schizophrenia-diagnosed patients in a mental health center, and having read philosophy books about positive ways of looking at schizophrenia, I considered it before.

“Schizophrenic” voices are inner voices in the sense that they are only being experienced subjectively, that is, in one person’s experience, whereas the person standing next to them cannot hear the voices.

However, that is a quality of all our thoughts. We can hear them; others cannot hear them.

At this point, it would be helpful to consider this: there seems to be some confusion in our mental health programs and institutions about the point of view that “if I am hearing voices then I might have schizophrenia.” Or a less strong claim: “if I am hearing voices that I do not identify as mine, then I might have schizophrenia.”

And yet, in our culture, we are hearing more and more references in popular song lyrics to the ‘voices in our heads.’ For example there’s a song by Bruno Mars called “Voices in my head.”

So there seems to be a growing awareness that we all have ‘voices in our heads.’

Then the question comes up: if we all have inner voices, do we all have schizophrenia?

If we are hearing our inner voices without identifying with them—that is, without saying “that’s me talking” or “these are my voices”—then other people might say we have schizophrenia. But that’s not necessarily true. A lady named Eleanor Longden gave a Ted talk about her experience being diagnosed with schizophrenia, which was a negative experience, for her. Later, she found relief when she was able to relate to her voices as aspects of her self, specifically her unresolved emotions.

“The most hostile and aggressive voices,” says Eleanor, “actually represented the parts of me that had been hurt the most profoundly. And as such, it was these voices that needed to be shown the most compassion and care.”

All of this ties into a theory I would put to you—a theory about schizophrenia. I say “theory” because it’s not confirmed by science but only makes sense in terms of the information presented here.

When someone meditates—when, for example, a monk/nun meditates—he/she hears all their inner voices, but there is no problem; there is no distress. What is characteristic of people diagnosed with schizophrenia, in the popular portrayal of them (the stereotype), is that they are in distress. They are having a distressing experience in relationship to the inner voices.

Then we can ask: what’s the difference between these two—the monk and the schizophrenia patient? The difference is where our identity rests. In the monk/meditator’s experience, there is a kind of stability in their identity, in their sense of “I,” from which they can relate to the inner voices. The inner voices may be unruly and chaotic, but, by contrast, there is a stability of identity that the meditator has found. We could say that stability of identity comes from being the watcher/witness of the inner voices. This is why the meditator can sit so calmly and quietly while all the voices talk.

By contrast, the one diagnosed with schizophrenia seems to not have this ‘stability of identity.’ Rather than having a foundation, something sturdy, from which they can relate to their inner voices, this person seems to be pulled in and out of the dialog of the inner voices; that is, they are distressed or disturbed by what the voices are saying, and having reactions to what the voices are saying. They do not necessarily feel identified with the voices—they do not feel “I am the one talking”—but they don’t necessarily ‘know who they are’ in a way that allows them to detach and watch the voices pass by.

Perhaps you see where this is going…. The schizophrenia-patient, the one in distress in relationship to their inner voices, is simply at a stage where they haven’t begun to relate to their inner voices from that stable identity of the watcher or witness of thoughts/voices. It’s “stable” because the watching/witnessing is an unchanging aspect of our experience; it’s always there. (By contrast, voices are always coming and going, appearing and disappearing.)

Also, going off of what Eleanor says in her talk, it seems to be that many people with schizophrenia have experienced trauma and pain in their life, to the point where they separate their identity from the inner voices (pain catalyzes a fragmentation of consciousness), but haven’t necessarily found that stable identity from which to relate to them, yet. This leads to the situation of being in distress. This is another factor.

In summary, people who have schizophrenia aren’t any different from everyone else—because everyone has voices—but they may have had more trauma, which led to dis-identifying from their inner voices, in a distressing way.

If someone has schizophrenia and they are in distress, they can probably find peace by changing their relationship with their inner voices, by being more of the calm watcher/witness. This seems to be what worked for Eleanor, too.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-diffe ... nner-voice

[Third Loop]

I have another comment on the schizophrenia thing. I randomly came across this post, it's really interesting.


https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-diffe ... nner-voice

Thanks for the article, there is no new information there for me but it may be useful to someone.

I am approaching the 25th anniversary of my SZ diagnosis. I would like to share some insight I have gained about my experience. It takes a great deal to surprise me these days but I have found that each time I reach an equilibrium point where I am comfortable and functioning some new input/experience occurs that adds anew level/dynamic that requires a reassessment. This article reminded me of an example of this.

I was comfortable believing that the voices was just an internal monologue or a manifestation of my subconscious. I was managing with those beliefs until one day I had a voice speaking to me in a language I don't recognize. Then I was like WTF. I am still not sure it's a language or a type of "baby-talk" It appears to have the structure of a language but I'm not sure. Can my sub-conscious invent a language?

I can describe my relationship with my voices, the vast majority of the time my reaction to my voices is one of two ways, depending on my mood or the nature of the voice I will either ignore it, or repeat an expletive filled mantra I have developed. On occasion if I'm in the mood and it's the right voice I will have a conversation with it. This can lead to some interesting insights, but can also be problematic. On occasion I forget my surroundings and realize I talking to a voice in public. When I catch myself doing that I'll look around to see if anyone noticed, and the odd time I see someone giving me a sideways glance, causing me to be embarrassed at being "that" guy.

[Caylus Ark]

I have another comment on the schizophrenia thing. I randomly came across this post, it's really interesting.


https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-diffe ... nner-voice

Thanks for the article, there is no new information there for me but it may be useful to someone.

I am approaching the 25th anniversary of my SZ diagnosis. I would like to share some insight I have gained about my experience. It takes a great deal to surprise me these days but I have found that each time I reach an equilibrium point where I am comfortable and functioning some new input/experience occurs that adds anew level/dynamic that requires a reassessment. This article reminded me of an example of this.

I was comfortable believing that the voices was just an internal monologue or a manifestation of my subconscious. I was managing with those beliefs until one day I had a voice speaking to me in a language I don't recognize. Then I was like WTF. I am still not sure it's a language or a type of "baby-talk" It appears to have the structure of a language but I'm not sure. Can my sub-conscious invent a language?

I can describe my relationship with my voices, the vast majority of the time my reaction to my voices is one of two ways, depending on my mood or the nature of the voice I will either ignore it, or repeat an expletive filled mantra I have developed. On occasion if I'm in the mood and it's the right voice I will have a conversation with it. This can lead to some interesting insights, but can also be problematic. On occasion I forget my surroundings and realize I talking to a voice in public. When I catch myself doing that I'll look around to see if anyone noticed, and the odd time I see someone giving me a sideways glance, causing me to be embarrassed at being "that" guy.

Honestly, it's weird because if anything occult is actually real, the entire diagnosis of schizophrenia becomes quite opaque
I believe in entities and spirits
However, if psychology agreed with me, they'd have a hell of a time differentiating spiritualists from schizos
I guess it would depend on the distress and dysregulation involved, but still