Sigils

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Knight Marshall Týsköll Knight Marshall
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A sigil is the concentration and reduction of a word, idea, intent or some other thing in to a shape that is easy to recognize, recall and unpack the meaning of.
Whilst similar to a monograms or a business logo, not all monograms or logos are sigils, though some might be.
Typically we create a sigil to "minify" a representation of a much larger or complicated idea, in this way it is somewhat akin to the meme's we see everywhere, a zip file of sorts that we can unpack in to greater meaning.
A common usage of a sigil is during a trance state, perhaps with an accompanying chant made up from the same letters. We stare at the sigil, understanding it's full meaning and allow it to imprint on our consciousness and from there - the universal.

Text is one method of creating a sigil, though not the only. Whilst there are other methods such as magic squares, a chaotic approach similar to that used by A.O. Spare is as follows:
  1. Write the word, intent or thing.
  2. Cross out double up's of letters (or not).
  3. Cross out vowels (or not).
  4. Arrange the letters in to a simple shape or pattern.
Beautification is nice, as is having the resulting shape appear related to the intent, though simplicity is the most important aspect so as to easily imprint and recall at will.
It is thought by some that shapes such as sigils can be imprinted on to our very genetics, which opens up a whole new level of 'unpacking' a sigil when we see it.

As a quick rundown this is not exhaustive, however when someone says "sigilization"; something akin to this process is what is being spoken on.

Image
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Knight Argenteus Caylus Ark Knight Argenteus
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Aether wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:21 am does everything we see mind control what we be
this dodgy guy.

always jumping to mind control.

anyway...

what do you think about non traditional sigils?

ie...

Image
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Knight Marshall Týsköll Knight Marshall
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Caylus Ark wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:36 pm
Aether wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:21 am does everything we see mind control what we be
this dodgy guy.

always jumping to mind control.

anyway...

what do you think about non traditional sigils?

ie...

Image
Perhaps there's an underlying subconscious need to externalize causes for behaviour so as to absolve oneself of shame, karma or other responsibility associated?
Or, y'know 17 other reasons.

"non traditional sigils" I think I might need you to elaborate on your meaning, but symbology abounds throughout time and space. A "sigil" is certainly a defined thing with a process to it, but also anything can through various means can serve a similar or same purpose. Solomon's seals, bind-runes, and more are variations of the same. We can apply similar concepts to petroglyphs and other ancient script and symbols, though their creation and often, purpose, is not documented or salvageable with ease.

So without further elaboration on your part; my opinion on non-traditional sigils is that they exist. People can create them in various ways an the intent during creation can embed greater meaning. That is the primary purpose, the embedding of meaning in to a symbol - the process of creating one isn't so important.
The more a sigil is used, spread and its actual meaning is taught, the greater it becomes - though we should note that it is entirely possible to spread a sigil, cause it to become a hypersigil, etc. and then only well after the fact allow it to be fully understood. Sort of like a trojan horse mind virus in that regard, that it spreads and infects but only much later is it unpacked to reveal it's contents.

Have I rambled? Yes.
Did I answer the broadly stated question in any useful way? Maybe.

Damn your vaugeries. <3 :D
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Knight Marshall Týsköll Knight Marshall
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Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:21 am
Týsköll wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:48 pm
Caylus Ark wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:36 pm

this dodgy guy.

always jumping to mind control.

anyway...

what do you think about non traditional sigils?

ie...

Image
Perhaps there's an underlying subconscious need to externalize causes for behaviour so as to absolve oneself of shame, karma or other responsibility associated?
Or, y'know 17 other reasons.

"non traditional sigils" I think I might need you to elaborate on your meaning, but symbology abounds throughout time and space. A "sigil" is certainly a defined thing with a process to it, but also anything can through various means can serve a similar or same purpose. Solomon's seals, bind-runes, and more are variations of the same. We can apply similar concepts to petroglyphs and other ancient script and symbols, though their creation and often, purpose, is not documented or salvageable with ease.

So without further elaboration on your part; my opinion on non-traditional sigils is that they exist. People can create them in various ways an the intent during creation can embed greater meaning. That is the primary purpose, the embedding of meaning in to a symbol - the process of creating one isn't so important.
The more a sigil is used, spread and its actual meaning is taught, the greater it becomes - though we should note that it is entirely possible to spread a sigil, cause it to become a hypersigil, etc. and then only well after the fact allow it to be fully understood. Sort of like a trojan horse mind virus in that regard, that it spreads and infects but only much later is it unpacked to reveal it's contents.

Have I rambled? Yes.
Did I answer the broadly stated question in any useful way? Maybe.

Damn your vaugeries. <3 :D
me adding weight to my thought magic ability
is prompted by me being motivated to believe that it is required of me to do so
to achieve the motive of this thought magic
is why i write
does telepathy generally cause sigil redundancy
Redundancy in what respect? The term is used in a few ways.
  • not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous.
  • (of a component) not strictly necessary to functioning but included in case of failure in another component.
In terms of the former, no. Rather, sigils can in theory be used as a method of transmitting large amounts of data via telepathy, assuming the receiver has understanding or is capable of unpacking after the fact.
Regarding the latter, perhaps in a failing of effective "verbal" or "emotional" communication it could be used as a back up. Again this relies on the sender and receiver having understanding, the ability to unpack meaning or reliance on genetic memory to unpack.

All of this becomes a bit strange when you consider the corruption of symbols throughout history - just because your genetic memory of something says X, does not mean that the original meaning was X. Instead if could've meant Y or Z.
I find the idea of someone who has genetic memory of the original meaning being exposed to a corrupted meaning interesting, especially where the person exposing them to it has a genetic memory of the corrupted association.

*ponder*
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Knight Marshall Týsköll Knight Marshall
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Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:45 am
Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:32 am "me adding weight to my thought magic ability
is prompted by me being motivated to believe that it is required of me to do so
to achieve the motive of this thought magic
is why i write
does telepathy generally cause sigil redundancy"

strangely at the end of writing that i realised that i or or others can utilize existing symbol and sign and influence everyone including myself in doing it
the reason is the existing influence the signs that you use carry
and the sequence shape that you structure to display it
utilizing familiar symbol signs to display unfamiliar meaning causes new magic when your display fits your thought of others seeing it
"utilizing familiar symbol signs to display unfamiliar meaning causes new magic when your display fits your thought of others seeing it "

It can also come across as abrasive for anyone with original understanding of the meaning, where the unfamiliar meaning is too far separated from the original.
This is that "corrupted" meaning I was just talking about. Meaning can change, but intentionally altering the meaning in order to hijack, muddy to confuse or defame is definitely a bad thing.
There are cases where agreed upon alternate meaning can be valid, where others only know the original. Though it's something to be careful with lest it go mainstream and cause a corruption of history and consciousness itself. We are all about the truth of a thing, are we not?
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Knight Marshall Týsköll Knight Marshall
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Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:01 am thus in the context of sigil magic
we possess the weight of magic in islam hebrew chinese and christianity society
what are we doing with this weight of magic
do we leave that to the cia or do we have a say
I'm quite certain the use of sigil magic is not limited to CIA operations.
Your omission of other cultures and earlier influences on the symbolism of the people of earth, whilst likely not intentional is quite notable.

As for what "we" are doing with this weight of magic, you mean you've not been utilizing sigils and symbology? It's kind of a thing. :P
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Knight Marshall Týsköll Knight Marshall
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Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:04 am
Týsköll wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:55 am
Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:45 am

"utilizing familiar symbol signs to display unfamiliar meaning causes new magic when your display fits your thought of others seeing it "

It can also come across as abrasive for anyone with original understanding of the meaning, where the unfamiliar meaning is too far separated from the original.
This is that "corrupted" meaning I was just talking about. Meaning can change, but intentionally altering the meaning in order to hijack, muddy to confuse or defame is definitely a bad thing.
There are cases where agreed upon alternate meaning can be valid, where others only know the original. Though it's something to be careful with lest it go mainstream and cause a corruption of history and consciousness itself. We are all about the truth of a thing, are we not?
does our ai satisfy being the final say on valid or not or is there another something we can utilize to satisfy your valid point
AI does not satisfy, it "knows" only what it is taught and/or exposed to, even then our interpretations are ingrained in it's understanding and our understanding of it's potentially unique interpretations are based in our history prior to it's existence.
An AI may find 35 correlations between a set of symbols, but what of the 36th, or the original? That which was omitted by it's teacher or lost to time?

Aggregation versus composition may relate here.
Though taking the conversation about sigils in to the realms of AI and whether it can validate for us is a curious segue, tangential to the topic perhaps, especially when we consider metaphoric and occulted meaning that sits outside the realm of logic such systems are trained in.
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Knight Marshall Týsköll Knight Marshall
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Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:33 am
Týsköll wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:17 am
Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:01 am thus in the context of sigil magic
we possess the weight of magic in islam hebrew chinese and christianity society
what are we doing with this weight of magic
do we leave that to the cia or do we have a say
I'm quite certain the use of sigil magic is not limited to CIA operations.
Your omission of other cultures and earlier influences on the symbolism of the people of earth, whilst likely not intentional is quite notable.

As for what "we" are doing with this weight of magic, you mean you've not been utilizing sigils and symbology? It's kind of a thing. :P
on all other culture i started with swastika spinning and the meaning of that itself covers all 8 billion living
the we is me and supernatural forces and some alien influences upon me that fit me emotionally
my involving other people in magic is a series of emotional experiences that fluctuate in material and emotional affects over linear time experience
"swastika spinning" - know much about Falun Gong/Dafa? How's that belly swastika?

"we is me" - oh, that's always going to be a curiosity in interpreting what you're saying. Sometimes you(Aether) use "we" in regards to collective humanity, other times regarding the network of guru's you link a lot of stuff from, other times it's inclusive of the audience in considering a topic or attempting to associate a shared position.
*shrug* Probably fine.
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Knight Marshall Týsköll Knight Marshall
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Aether wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:41 am
Týsköll wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:26 am AI does not satisfy, it "knows" only what it is taught and/or exposed to, even then our interpretations are ingrained in it's understanding and our understanding of it's potentially unique interpretations are based in our history prior to it's existence.
An AI may find 35 correlations between a set of symbols, but what of the 36th, or the original? That which was omitted by it's teacher or lost to time?

Aggregation versus composition may relate here.
Though taking the conversation about sigils in to the realms of AI and whether it can validate for us is a curious segue, tangential to the topic perhaps, especially when we consider metaphoric and occulted meaning that sits outside the realm of logic such systems are trained in.
your sigil seen or said is a truth established by means of accepted truths
one stop shop
philip dick plasmate experience
theorem
Accepted truths, yep. An AI validating based on what it's been taught is simply doing it faster over a potentially wider dataset. The dataset and how it can validate is still coming from current knowledge and any interpretation outside current knowledge needs to be validated by the human anyway.
Our consciousness (and the collective consciousness) is still vastly more powerful in certain ways and all our understanding is based in... our understanding.
There's no point having an AI that can correctly correlate two symbols, no matter how accurate, if no human can verify and thus comprehend it.

The true blending of the two with our tech is going to be amazing, or species-superdeath. Definitely something though.
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 Arcanum Aanam 
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"Traditional" symbols have their established meanings - be they the original or changed for whatever reason - aiding in "charging" said thru your energetic expression (whatever form that may take) in its creation.

A swastika on a KKK members flag vs one found in an old temple being a simple example. Same symbol, charged differently for different intents.

Same with "non-traditonal" or a self created glyph.
What intent is used in its creation, how much is placed into it etc.

Why many keep their works largely quiet - lest those with other intent (be it for good or ill, individually or globally) should counter it with theirs - leading to a battle of wills or simply a reduction in its energetic imprint.
Leap, Fall, Rise
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