by Dave » Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:26 pm
Týsköll wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:17 am
Remembering something that isn't real is creating at best, lying to yourself, or at worst: lying to others.
Far better to admit to creating rather than lie about remembering, imo.
To be abundantly clear - my words are in the context of a person finding out that the whole world, including their birth/family narratives are ultimately illusion, and still holding on to them as "real" (i.e having been experience by them) is not bad.
The example I used: the Matrix. None of Neo's backstory is REAL since he's in a computer program. However, him abandoning his family, friends, co-workers etc without a backward glance is not cool.
Similarly, in Buddhism, even the whole world, ALL of it, down to every particle is an illusion does not give one the right to disregard people as people. In my view, in my practice, none of this, even you, my mother, my father, my family, my friends is ultimately "REAL" - however, I know where I was born, who they were and who my family is, despite it being true that even on a cosmic and personal level what I know of their reality is actually ILLUSION.
I myself hold on to memories and acknowledge events that have no ultimate reality behind them - they're my personal narrative. My keyframe, etc. My life.
Maya, illusion, wandering in Samsara.... and my view of people, places and things is just that, illusion.
However, I know that "rice is rice" and "sand is sand" - and I know where I was born, etc.
Thus, even though finding out and believing, accepting and practicing the enlightenment regarding the illusionary nature of all people and events is paramount in my life. I do not neglect to acknowledge and seek to help family, friends and people I met, and will meet, to a better life... with that understanding. The understanding of illusion. Doing it right this very moment in this very message.
However.... what I was trying to convey is: Neo sucks. He had a family, friends and co-workers. Once he finds out he was in the Matrix he contacts none of them and makes no effort to tell a single person in the Matrix it's not real. None of them. Not the people on the streets, etc. He trades one illusion for another.
That's the context: even if one finds out their entire life is illusion, it's not reason enough to turn your back on them (i.e. the people you know) for being illusions. Bodhisattvas "wear the armor of the saints" for the "benefit of people, who, ultimately, are not real."
I aspire to that.
Nothing I said had anything to do with creating fiction, lies or getting others to believe them in their past, present or future. Or lying to self about things, etc Or lying about memories. Etc. etc etc IMO.
To me, you, me and everyone I've ever met,
while on earth as humans, is living in Samsara. Illusion. That's the context. Having met people in illusion, inclduing family, etc, is not reason, for me, to not treat them as people, or, as something one has experienced.
I hope I've made myself clear, and, if it was already clear to you, and others, well... it still bears repeating. Forgive me if that's the case.
Anyhooo... I have compassion for the illusioned and hope one day they're dys-illusioned.
MY overall sense of this thread, and clearly I'm mistaken, was about people being able to alter their reality, their surroundings, and finding out they are capable of reality bending. My two cents was, and is, that if one finds out they can do that (alter reality), like Neo, etc, that they do NOT forget their illusory Matrix parents, family and friends.... and that they use this knowledge and power of theirs for the benefit of others - and especially sharing that ability and view with them for their OWN use and enlightenment.
Compassion for those wandering in Samsara, and, compassion for those who aren't.
~Dave
[quote=Týsköll post_id=1933 time=1712197033 user_id=2]
Remembering something that isn't real is creating at best, lying to yourself, or at worst: lying to others.
Far better to admit to creating rather than lie about remembering, imo.
[/quote]
To be abundantly clear - my words are in the context of a person finding out that the whole world, including their birth/family narratives are ultimately illusion, and still holding on to them as "real" (i.e having been experience by them) is not bad.
The example I used: the Matrix. None of Neo's backstory is REAL since he's in a computer program. However, him abandoning his family, friends, co-workers etc without a backward glance is not cool.
Similarly, in Buddhism, even the whole world, ALL of it, down to every particle is an illusion does not give one the right to disregard people as people. In my view, in my practice, none of this, even you, my mother, my father, my family, my friends is ultimately "REAL" - however, I know where I was born, who they were and who my family is, despite it being true that even on a cosmic and personal level what I know of their reality is actually ILLUSION.
I myself hold on to memories and acknowledge events that have no ultimate reality behind them - they're my personal narrative. My keyframe, etc. My life.
Maya, illusion, wandering in Samsara.... and my view of people, places and things is just that, illusion.
However, I know that "rice is rice" and "sand is sand" - and I know where I was born, etc.
Thus, even though finding out and believing, accepting and practicing the enlightenment regarding the illusionary nature of all people and events is paramount in my life. I do not neglect to acknowledge and seek to help family, friends and people I met, and will meet, to a better life... with that understanding. The understanding of illusion. Doing it right this very moment in this very message.
However.... what I was trying to convey is: Neo sucks. He had a family, friends and co-workers. Once he finds out he was in the Matrix he contacts none of them and makes no effort to tell a single person in the Matrix it's not real. None of them. Not the people on the streets, etc. He trades one illusion for another.
That's the context: even if one finds out their entire life is illusion, it's not reason enough to turn your back on them (i.e. the people you know) for being illusions. Bodhisattvas "wear the armor of the saints" for the "benefit of people, who, ultimately, are not real."
I aspire to that.
Nothing I said had anything to do with creating fiction, lies or getting others to believe them in their past, present or future. Or lying to self about things, etc Or lying about memories. Etc. etc etc IMO.
To me, you, me and everyone I've ever met, [i][b]while on earth as humans[/b][/i], is living in Samsara. Illusion. That's the context. Having met people in illusion, inclduing family, etc, is not reason, for me, to not treat them as people, or, as something one has experienced.
I hope I've made myself clear, and, if it was already clear to you, and others, well... it still bears repeating. Forgive me if that's the case.
Anyhooo... I have compassion for the illusioned and hope one day they're dys-illusioned.
MY overall sense of this thread, and clearly I'm mistaken, was about people being able to alter their reality, their surroundings, and finding out they are capable of reality bending. My two cents was, and is, that if one finds out they can do that (alter reality), like Neo, etc, that they do NOT forget their illusory Matrix parents, family and friends.... and that they use this knowledge and power of theirs for the benefit of others - and especially sharing that ability and view with them for their OWN use and enlightenment.
Compassion for those wandering in Samsara, and, compassion for those who aren't.
~Dave
